What reasons and excuses do you or your spouse give for saying "no" to sex? Feel free to simply list them OR... list and explain, your choice.
Stay with me :-). I am going somewhere with this.
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About Me
Some of my favorite sites for reading
- A Woman's Touch- Sexuality Resource Center
- Be The Groom
- Bondage- rope techniques- twistedmonk
- D/s- AlbanyPowerExchange
- D/s- BedroomBondage- rope techniques (Don't wander around at this site.)
- Deepthroating: What is it & how do I do it?
- Dr. Laura Schlessinger (where I first heard that refusing sex was wrong in marriage)
- Ezine Articles- Marriage Relationships
- FELLATIO- OS "how to" on husband (Beware of sexual photos at site.)
- Frederica Mathewes-Green
- HAND JOB advice- dildo assisted tutorial
- Healthysex.com
- Liberator sexperts
- Love & Respect- The Crazy Cycle
- My Pleasure- sex education articles
- Passionate Commitment
- Sensuous Wife
- sexinfo- over 100 3-D animated sex positions
- The Marriage Bed forum
- The-Clitoris.com
- Too Timid- Sex Education
Foods to Increase SD (jk)
- 281 Jambalaya Recipes (for jambalaya junkies)
- Anna Maria Volpi A Passion for Cooking (Italian)
- Ciao Italia with Mary Ann Esposito
- Greek-Recipe.com
- Italian Food Forever
- Mediterranean Cuisine (Recipes from France, Greece, Italy, Lebanon, Morocco & Spain.)
- New Orleans, Louisiana & Cajun Recipes
- Sintages.gr (Greek)
- The Pioneer Woman Cooks (TX cowboy food)
- Village Cooking in Greece
- Voula's Greek Recipes
- What I'm Cooking Now (Italian & other)
A few favorite sites for sex toys & other bedroom items
Books From My Home Library
- A Man With a Maid & Other Victorian Stories, Anonymous
- After Jesus, Readers Digest (OOP, Early Church History), ISBN: 0895773929
- All About Vegetarian Cooking, Joy of Cooking
- Baking Illustrated (from Cooks Illustrated)
- Barefoot Contessa Back to Basics (cookbook)
- Barefoot Contessa Family Style, ISBN: 060961066X (cookbook)
- Barefoot Contessa Parties, ISBN: 0609606441 (cookbook)
- Christianity and Eros: Essays on the Theme of Sexual Love, Sherrard (spiritual)
- Ciao Italia Pronto, Mary Ann Esposito, ISBN: 0312339089 (cookbook)
- Cooking Up A Storm: Recipes Lost & Found from The Times Picayune of New Orleans, Edited by Bienvenu and Walker (cookbook)
- Cucina Di Calabria, by Palmer, ISBN: 0781810507 (cookbook)
- Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance & Submission, William & Gloria Brame, ISBN: 0679769560
- Early Christian Fathers, Edited by Richardson, Westminster John Knox Press, ISBN: 0664227473
- Erotic Poems, Selected & Edited by Peter Washington
- Erotic Slavehood: A Miss Abernathy Omnibus, C. Abernathy, ISBN: 1890159719
- Eusebius, Penguin Books, ISBN: 0140445358 (Early Church History)
- For Men Only, Feldhahn
- For Women Only, Text & Discussion Guide, Feldhahn
- He's on Top: Erotic Stories of Male Dominance and Female Submission, Bussel
- Intimacy Ignited, Dillow & Pintus
- Intimate Issues, Dillow & Pintus
- Intimate Kisses, Edited by Maltz (poetry)
- Jay Wiseman's Erotic Bondage Handbook, ISBN: 1890159131
- La Bonne Cuisine: The Original Companion for French Home Cooking, Madame E. Saint-Ange (cookbook)
- La Bouche Creole, Leon E. Soniat, Jr. (cookbook)
- Living La Dolce Vita, D'Agostino Mautner (Italian culture)
- Love & Respect, Text & Workbook, Eggerichs
- Marriage As A Path To Holiness, David C. Ford, St. Tikhon's Seminary Press (spiritual)
- Master/Slave, Morley (short stories)
- Mastering the Art of French Cooking Vol. 1&2, Julia Child (cookbook)
- Mexican Everyday, Rick Bayless, ISBN: 039306154X (cookbook)
- Moroccan Modern, Hassan M'Souli (cookbook)
- Passionate Hearts, Edited by Maltz (poetry)
- Passionate Marriage: Keeping Love & Intimacy Alive in Committed Relationships, Schnarch
- Private Thoughts: Exploring the Power of Women's Sexual Fantasies, Wendy Maltz
- She Comes First, Kerner
- Sheet Music, Leman
- The Better Built Bondage Book, Douglas Kent
- The Bread Bible, ISBN: 0393057942 (cookbook)
- The Complete Kama Sutra, Alain Danielou
- The Darker Side of Pleasure, Eden Bradly (3 short stories)
- The Early Church, H. Chadwick, Penguin Books, ISBN: 0140231994
- The Erotic Spirit, Edited by Hamill (poetry)
- The Fannie Farmer Cookbook, ISBN: 0679450815
- The Five Love Languages, Chapman
- The Italian Slow Cooker, Michele Scicolone (cookbook)
- The Kosher Sutra: Eight Sacred Secrets for Reigniting Desire and Restoring Passion for Life, Shmuley Boteach
- The Laurel's Kitchen Bread Book: A Guide to Whole-Grain Breadbaking, ISBN: 0812969672 (cookbook)
- The Loving Dominant, John & Libby Warren, ISBN: 1890159727
- The New Orleans Cookbook, Rima & Richard Collin
- The Notebook, N. Sparks (fiction)
- The Proper Care & Feeding of Husbands, Schlessinger
- The Proper Care & Feeding of Marriage, Schlessinger
- The Wedding, N. Sparks (sequel to The Notebook)
- Twenty Love Poems and a Song of Despair, Neruda
- Two Knotty Boys, ISBN: 193116049X
- Vegetarian Soups For All Seasons, by Nava Atlas (cookbook)
- Whitman- Poetry and Prose, ISBN: 094045002X
- Who's Your Mama, Are You Catholic, And Can You Make A Roux?, Marcelle Bienvenu (cookbook)
- Williams-Sonoma Chicken for Dinner
- Williams-Sonoma Essentials of Baking ISBN: 0848727797 (cookbook)
- Williams-Sonoma Fish for Dinner
- Women and Men in the Early Church, David C. Ford, St. Tikhon's Seminary Press (spiritual)
- Yes, Sir: Erotic Stories of Female Submission, Bussel
33 comments:
not feeling well, long hard day and I'm tired, not emotionally up for it, feeling selfish, don't want to be bothered, daughter still awake.... These are mostly old reasons but just reading them is painful. They are all self-centered.
Occasionally something as childish as a tummy ache, but the sure fire go-to method is to start a fight or otherwise be absolutely unapproachable.
Here is some of the things I get
Tired
Don't feel good
Don't feel like it
Smothering me
Quit playing games
Don't feel connected
Kids are around
Dont feel like being touched
Give me some space
Stop
dont
No
Quit
Is it all you think about
"Silence"
Thats a few would you like any more
Okay, I'll bite. :)
The most recent one was "I'm tired, are you tired?" Explanation: We both thought the other was tired, and we were, so we both said we were tired. Next morning, DH said something about "making up for last night tonight." I said, "Yeah, you were tired," and he said I'd said I was tired and that I'd never said that before so he let me be. So that's a recent, but evidently underused "excuse." ;)
I think DH's work gets in the way the most. Not that it is an "excuse," but he does some non-profit work in the evenings/early morning. We both very much believe in it, used to work in it together, but it eats into some of our time together. We are still trying to sort out our family schedule and lifestyle to make this work better. I wouldn't say it ever serves as an "excuse to say no," but more of a "let's save gourmet sex for another night," or we might miss an afternoon sex opportunity to be caught up on that evening.
We have also had the discussion that DH used to not initiate because he didn't want to interfere with my sleep (we have little ones and I have fatigue-related health issues), and also because of his "training" that women just weren't that into sex. We communicated about that a while ago and continue to discuss it to be sure we're on the same page.
I remember a "no" twice in our 7.5yr. marriage (one I mentioned above) so maybe I shouldn't even comment. :)
unfortunately these are the ones that I am hearing sooo much of lately...
Under too much stress.
Can't turn my brain off and relax.
Too busy.
Not feeling well.
In the morning... too much to do today, need to get started.
The kids will be knocking on the door soon.
-tired
-kids
-headache
-not in the mood
-you don't accept me for who I am (sexually)
-I am not into that
-you are a pervert (for non-perverted requests)
-given it to you enough already (2-4 times a month)
-time of month(pms and period- that means 21 days of the month not in the mood)
-wife feels fat
-wife is fat- just kidding, the lingerie only makes her look fat;-) just kidding again.
-pressure for sex
-not close to me
-I only want her for sex
-wife is not enthusiastic about sex
-wife does not participate- non responsive- just get it done.
-fighting
-high and low expectations
-bait and switch- outstanding sex b4 marriage anemic after marriage and lifeless after children.
-honor and respect for husband lost or faded
-lack of feedback/participation to help make it wonderful for her.
-I am not the women you want- you want some pornstar and I am just a simple women (NEVER told her this) would I want more energy and passion of course. Do I need a Debby does dallas? No- I just want a wife who desires me and expresses that. Lifeless lovemaking sessions where I get little to know response is unacceptable.
do you need more?
It is the saddest thing when I drive by a church seeing a couple getting married and think- 'don't do it, your passion will be gone if you do. Marriage isn't worth it.' How sad and wrong is that?
Sex and marriage is supposed to be hot and fulfilling in marriage. Instead I can point my finger and turn 360 degrees at most of the couples I know and see so many husbands with wives that are prudes.
What is wrong with this 'Christian' world that wives become sexually lazy when they get married? Don't they get it that this totally elevates an environment for husbands to think about a) other women and b) how their wives suck? From there atoms split and there is either a introverted quiet husband that buries their disappointment in work or hobbies or they create a relationship with someone else. Not even getting into the buffet of porn that awaits us at the click of a button.
If men were asked how long it would take for them to find porn I think everyone could get a site within 10 seconds. Sorry just tried it- less than two seconds and got full porno. If men were asked if their wife left them how long it would take to get a younger more attractive and honoring, generous and horny wife they could be mobile and have a date within 30 minutes- I could.
Excuses? Am I being selfish? I would agree if I hadn't had extensive conversations with her before marriage about my sexual personality and the importance of it. She even brought her mom in on it to convince me that we should stop having sex before marriage and she would be fulfilling when we got married. So much for that discussion.
I guess you can tell from this post the number one excuse for me is that my wife tix me off for being lazy in bed and ignoring my needs. Selfish? I don't think so. If I just stopped talking to her she would be ticked and on and on it would go. The fact of the matter is I work at talking with her. She does not work at becoming a more energetic, attention giving, affirming sex kitten I want.
Outside of this wonderful blog I do discuss this with her, but- I do encourage her and compliment her daily. I ALWAYS speak with respect about her to our children, her and to others. I do the dishes, help with laundry and would be considered an outstanding husband by many.
I think there is a reason most 'promise keepers' have viewed porn within the last six months. Their wives don't keep their promise to them.
btw- my 'lover' snores while I type.
Anon
Yes, list as many excuses as you hear or give in your marriage bed.
Anonymous2, My wife is pretty much like anonymous. Like we already did it 2-4 times this month, I hear " we just did it last week, you horny already?" She is a good person, just really lazy when it comes to sex. She would rather me MB than to ask her for sex, that why I don't bother her so much. Why get married?
My wife tells me that she is no longer in a sexual phase of her life right now. She no longer wants to have sex with anyone - ever again. That certainly includes me.
Honestly, with that excuse, how do you argue with her? Some of the other excuses I have seen on this board can easily be dealt with. You say you are too tired? Find another job. You say you are under stress? Exercise more. You say the kids might barge in? Buy a lock for the door.
But when someone says they never want to have sex EVER AGAIN, how do you argue with that? It is the ultimate excuse. And honestly, it really isn't an excuse. It is the truth. My wife is being completely honest, and I truly believe her.
Oh here is a nice one to start the new year:
Conversation between husband and wife. Husband starts by stating:
"Happy New Year I love you- kiss. This has been a hard year but I think we have grown closer through it."
pause
"Maybe"
Not really an excuse but certainly a reason. Needless to say we didn't start the new year with a wonderful session of generous lovemaking. The prayers continue.
The icing on the cake was that twice during the day I had two women basically offer themselves to me for new years eve. Purity and resistance continues in the face of a non-generous and non-loving wife.
Anon
It's only been [xxx] days/hours..
I realize in my predicament, that every day is not likely to happen without a fundamental and deep seated character change on the part of my wife. I don't press the issue. Probably anywhere near as often as I should.
But once in a while, just because we did it Friday night, and Saturday we have all the time in the world - one would think on occasion that it might happen just because it's pleasurable and lovers are suppose to enjoy each other's company. But no, it's only been 10 hours... Like she has to rebuild her resolve to stomach the ordeal yet again.
If sex is more fun than watching TV, why is it you can watch TV for 2-3 hours night after night without saying 'We just watched TV yesterday?'
Help please-
another night of a sexually non-responsive wife. I am fighting loneliness, isolation and temptation. I stroke her legs and she might as well be dead. This nightly routine of her not being my wife is pushing me. I fight for purity in my mind but temptation fights back. How long, how long until relief comes? What form will it come in?
I am not suicidal but I do long for the day of being freed from this life and living with the saints- oh what peace that would be.
Am I to wimpy with her? Do I need to have an affair just to get her attention? Do I need to let her catch me looking at porn or something? Is there anything that works to shock this women back to the lover of my youth? She was on fire once- where the hell did that go? Can I have a concubine?
Any suggestions would be a huge help.
Anon
Anon,
How long have you been married?
At what point in your marriage did your wife become frigid and begin practicing sexual refusal?
To your knowledge, was your wife ever sexually abused in her past? (It would explain sexual refusal brought on by fear.)
Did she ever engage in sex outside of marriage with you or with anyone else? (It would explain sexual refusal brought on by guilt.)
Does your wife deal with any type of mental illness such as depression or anything else?
Have you read “1 Cor. 7 - Sexual responsibility” out loud to your wife and discussed it with her? http://site.themarriagebed.com/1-cor-7-sexual-responsibility
What have you told your wife and what has been her response?
Have you shared the sexual refusal with your pastor? If nothing is making a dent at home and you haven’t yet spoken to your pastor about, now is the time to break the secretive silence and “out” your wife to your pastor. Make the phone call TODAY to set up the appointment and I would advise doing it before you she knows about it so she can’t talk you out of making the appointment. If your pastor can’t help, then you will likely need to seek professional counseling. Before you tell me, “Pastor doesn’t know and wife would kill me or leave me or kick me out if I told,” my response to that and to her would be, “Too bad, so sad. If you don’t care enough about our relationship and care enough to see the damage this is doing to the kids, shame on you. I care and I am going to seek help and I will be going with or without you. Here is the date and time for the appointment. Between now and then, you decide if you will be joining me when I meet with pastor.”
If your wife’s behavior has been this way for a long time, she is no doubt in a deep-rooted habit which will require intervention from outside help if she is ever to overcome whatever is causing her frigidity. Will your wife become upset if you begin handling things in a proactive way? You betcha so brace yourself for the storm. She will likely exhibit rage and God only knows what else in an attempt to prevent you from letting her secret out but you must be strong and resist any threats she may throw your way. I am not suggesting you do all this to make your wife happy. I’m suggesting it to help you find healing for your marriage and for your marriage bed. It is not so easy to ignore sexual issues when your pastor or therapist knows about it.
I’m sorry you are going through this but if you don’t begin dealing with the issues in a more proactive way, chances will be slim to none of her ever changing.
I think you are breaking new ground here. Outing your spouse for not having sex? That's a new one to me. I suppose this would have to be private to the pastor in the sense of asking for his help, but if it works it could do a lot of good. In some spouses it could produce the reverse reaction so one would have to have peace about it I think.
It absolutely should be a private meeting with the pastor. There is no reason for anyone else in the church to be there or to hear about it.
And to be honest-- If I had to tell my pastor that my spouse was refusing sex and then afterward my spouse would deny their sinfulness even with pastor.... I would seriously question the spiritual condition of my spouse. And if said spouse is claiming to their church friends that they are a good Christian I would tell them, "Either you begin working with a professional to change your 'stinking thinking' towards our marriage bed or you have no business working in church ministries and 'talking the walk' without actually 'walking the walk' in your private life."
Please, don't anyone give me that line, "Only God knows their heart so we can't accuse them of not living for God." Excuse me??? This is our spouse we're talking about here. We know if our spouse truly has a heart after God in all things... all things including the marriage and the marriage bed. And our pastor knows too. When I admitted to our pastor that I had been refusing sex, he wasted no time in telling me what he thought of that behavior. For years my dh tried to convince me how wrong I was but I didn't believe him. When our pastor found out it cut me to the core and that's what I needed-- someone who could get through to me.
Yes, we should believe our spouse and not require a pastor telling us before we are convicted but in reality, a person living in a sin habit will not always listen to their spouse. In those cases, you take it to the next level and bring the pastor in on it. If that still does no good, you crank it up one more notch and begin talking with a therapist even if the refuser won't initially see the therapist. You go alone if needed, all the while encouraging your refusing spouse to join you.
In the mean time you quit making their life so cushy at home. Someone living in sexual sin (refusal) has no business being treated by their spouse as a king or a queen in their home. Dethrone them… make them a little uncomfortable so they will have incentive to get help. If my cushy life as I know it will change until I talk to pastor or therapist, I will work double time to get the help I need. Without incentive the refusal could go on for decades. It’s like a child who disobeys and they have to have consequences/punishments for their behavior to help them turn away from their sinful ways. When we disobey God with our marriage bed we are behaving as a sinful child so we ought to be treated as a sinful child until we decide to fly right and grow up.
I could go on and on with this but I'll stop now.
OK- here we go:
-Married almost two decades.
-Sexual refusal- non-participatory sex began with first child (14 years ago) and ramped up with last child 8 years ago.
-Sex abuse? Her no- never told me and has been asked.
-Sex before marriage? Her- if she is honest one other person about six months before we met. Then we had rock and roll sex until we were married- outstanding sex more than I could have dreamed of.
-Oh this is a good one- If I have not shared this before. After what I thought was outstanding sex I said to her "that it was incredible and the best ever" Pause- no response. "My first time was the most exciting for me." She said- I was not her first one. That little piece of burning hell has sat on my soul since it was given to me from my 'bride'. I have since then been chasing the wind trying to be her best one- sorry apparently I suck. Any attempts at creativity or achieving pure pleasure for her are perceived as pressure and acting.
-Mental illness? Possibly depression but never diagnosed. Very low self esteem.
-1 Corinthians- yes. She is well versed in that and has read many of your recommended books. She knows her responsibility. She does not recognize or perhaps does not want to recognize that this assists in driving me to sin.
-Her response and our sexual bed is this: 1- maybe 2 times a month she will 'participate' and be free in the bedroom. 2-4 times a month she will allow me to either use her or she will simply finish me off with no emotion. So she is not completely frigid but certainly is not into me or the union of sex in marriage. She would say she is not refusing because I am getting some. Last night we talked about it and she said "maybe sex is the only thing keeping us together" to which I responded maybe if we had sex more we would be more together." Her response was that if we did it more she would not be into it or with me emotionally and I would not like that. True- I do not like it when my wife lays there like a wet blanket and just tries to finish me off to be done with it and me.
-We are back in counseling this week- I will out her if needed but her response will be "we have sex but he does not like me for me." It has come up before and she blatantly said "He wants me to be into it."
-She feels like it is acting and I am just performing etc. I have looked at porn in the past (not excessively, not addicted) and she thinks that since I have seen porn in the past I am forever tainted and all things porn means that everything in porn is sin. Therefore many sexually creative doors are permanently locked.
-She will not kiss- says I kiss wrong. Without kissing I am way restricted to foreplay. She will not talk during lovemaking to give feedback as to what feels good and what is working.
-Our relationship is backwards- I express love and show acts of warmth outside of the bedroom- hugs, pats on back and telling her and the children I love them. I want to hold and be held after sex- she turns her back and falls asleep. She on the other hand does not receive the hugs when given.
-I don't know what to do now- I can out her but out her for what? If I out her for not being into it she will default to a canned answer like: "Were not close so I can't be into it." or "I am not in the mood" or some of the other excuses given earlier.
-I want my horny bride back and I am not sure she will ever be back. This drives me crazy and is tearing at my ability to become more Holy.
-This does drive me to process through having affairs and finding someone who will be excited to be touched by me, kissed by me and tell me that I am their perfect lover. I am however not married to that person. Oh to here someone, anyone tell me how much they love me and my touches.
I can't leave her, I won't divorce her and it is pulling me down spiritually, emotionally and physically.
Anon
Wow that's good ground breaking stuff Gemma. I think very few people would view it as sin, but I think you are right.
Your second paragraph is a recipe for actually taking some practical action. This is so rare and such a different way of looking at it.
I am learning here. Gentle reproof from a third party (preferably a woman like the pastors wife) would be a good start if it is on the wife's side.
I know a lot of men withold as well but their problem tends to be porn or private mb a lot of the time in my experience.
I absolutely believe this should be done in accordance w/ Matt 18, but even beyond that, the nature of this issue make it one that's more productive to handle as privately as the offending party will allow.
1 Cor 7 does not stop at vs 5. Keep on reading to vs 15 or so. If you lovingly confront your spouse, and after taking it to the pastor privately they respond by further aggravating the sin or seeking dissolution of the relationship - I would take this as convincing argument that they have denied the faith and are acting as an unbeliever. Their eternal salvation aside, I would feel released (and relieved) should such a person seek a divorce.
After years of soft-stepping around this explosive relationship, I say bring it. Either it gets better now, or let me go. And you might be surprised how even the most obstinate and mean spirited spouse will react when you finally push back decisively.
Anon,
Your wife may not be completely frigid but she is behaving in a sexually selfish way. Even a spouse who is LD, can choose to learn how to be sexually generous…. can learn how to offer enthusiastic, passionate sex. There really is no good reason for selfishness in the marriage bed but you have to decide if you are going to call her on it. She thinks she is doing her duty. She is not and she needs to understand that she’s not. Don’t keep letting her believe that because she offers half-@ss sex a few times a month that she is off the hook. If you don’t become more proactive your 2 decades will become 3 before you know it. Any reputable therapist will see through your wife’s selfishness. If your therapist caters to your wife, find another therapist.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Then we had rock and roll sex until we were married- outstanding sex more than I could have dreamed of.
Have you discussed this with her? Why the hot sex then but not now? I would suggest that maybe she’s still dealing with guilt over the sex she had before meeting you and before you guys were married.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I have looked at porn in the past (not excessively, not addicted) and she thinks that since I have seen porn in the past I am forever tainted and all things porn means that everything in porn is sin. Therefore many sexually creative doors are permanently locked.
That’s just plain dumb. Is the porn truly behind you? If it is, you need to explain to her that even PIV-IC is in porn but that doesn’t make it perverse or all children would be conceived through perversion and you know that’s not true.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>-She will not kiss- says I kiss wrong…… I don't know what to do now- I can out her but out her for what?..... I can't leave her, I won't divorce her and it is pulling me down spiritually, emotionally and physically.
Then why in the heck has she not showed you the way she wants to be kissed? There is no reason why she can’t show you unless…. she really just doesn’t want to kiss.
You call her out for being sexually selfish. I’ll ask again- Does your pastor know? It’s been 2 decades without improvements. Time for your pastor to be in on this. He needs to know. I would not suggest that you leave your wife but if you want to see change, you have to stop enabling her behavior. I can’t say this enough— TELL YOUR PASTOR ABOUT WHAT HAS BEEN GOING ON IN YOUR MARRIAGE BED.
Living in a sexless marriage with a wife is something that that can be called out.
What if it is a halfway house? No passion, no creativity etc. but still some sex. Is it possible to see the pastor over this?
Yes same question as Blondie- how do you call out a lazy spouse who does it just to get off the hook or as a duty? Isn't sex supposed to be a desire? I think it is a bunch of crap that women don't have passion. I guarantee that if they were having an affair or were dumped and had to date again they would have passion. It is a LIE and pure laziness.
Anon
Blondie, no passion? Some sex? Tell me, how is that God's best for your wife's marriage bed?
Anon, you are correct... it is a bunch of crap that women and some men too, don't have passion. You said: "I guarantee that if they were having an affair or were dumped and had to date again they would have passion. It is a LIE and pure laziness." To that I say BINGO!!! When I was dating I had passion. I had passion when I met my husband. We married and then I allowed my passion to go down the toilet. I hate what I did to him all those years. It seems to me that many women and men exhibit passion until they are married and then allow it to go to the wayside and that is so very wrong and deceptive. GR and I have two daughters and I'll be darned if we let them go into a marriage the way I did. Sexual refusal… lack of sexual passion… it doesn’t have to be the gift that keeps on giving. We can break the cycle with our own spouse and with our kids before they marry.
OK- we are all on the same page here- lazy prudish wives or in some cases husbands. I will incubate formulas and share with the others in this camp of sexless anons- anons unite and prepare for the fight.
So, what would be the suggestions for motivating these 'wives'? These wives that know what the Bible says, that know what temptations are our there for men, that know the opportunities that present themselves and know what they are doing to their husbands and still continue to accept their lifestyle?
Suggestions for motivation? KICK BUTT, IN LOVE!
Stop making them believe that no matter what they do/don’t do in the MB, you will remain faithful. REFUSERS COUNT ON YOUR FAITHFULNESS so in their mind, they can refuse 70-100% of the time and rest assured that you wouldn’t dare be unfaithful. Listen carefully. I’m not suggesting unfaithfulness. I’m only saying to stop giving them the impression that you’ll remain faithful when they are unfaithful with their sin habit of refusing. Sin has consequences, yes, even sin of refusal. They insist on continuing their sin habit? They need to understand that there are risks involved… that they could lose their marriage, lose their cushy lifestyle as they know it… and tear up their kids’ home. They need to know that each day they are careless about their MB, gives you one more day to fall into sexual temptation. Quit making them think that because you are a good Christian man/woman, you would never give into temptation. That is one of the biggest lies within marriages.
Stop backing down when they give excuses. Stop allowing their refusing lifestyle when they clearly don't care. If it's been going on for months or years, they've had plenty enough time to change their attitude regarding the MB. Put a deadline for them to change on their own, having the deadline depend on how long it's been happening. If they don't meet deadline, blow the whistle. Don't give idle threats. Be specific. Say what you mean and mean what you say. If deadline is February 1 and the day arrives with no change, call pastor that very day to set up appointment to tell him about the refusing. If pastor can't help or, God forbid, his own MB is a mess, walk away because he won’t be able to help you. Find a professional therapist and make that appointment.
My point in all this is to say that you can't be passive and expect effort and change from your refusing spouse. Typically a refuser has a controlling personality. That's why they control the "sex gate". They know they can do it and get away with it because the refused spouse will back down every time. Well, bust that myth!!!
Oh, and refusers only practice what the bible preaches if it’s something they feel like doing. God doesn’t control them. They control their own life. Refusers are quick to point out the speck in their spouse’s eye but they can’t see the log in their own. Refusers, in their sleep, can quote scriptures that tell YOU how you should treat them but they always put a twist on the verses which apply to their own attitude, especially in regard to their marriage bed attitude. And for goodness sakes, stop telling them and others that your refusing spouse is a wonderful Christian and that only do good in all areas of their life… except in the marriage bed. Get it through your head that when a person disregards a vital part of their marriage (ie, the marriage bed), they are essentially disregarding the marriage vows. Compare it to a person who claims they are a Christian but they never pray and they pick and choose which scriptures to obey (ie, the ones that make them feel good). Is such a person a Christian? Hmmm…. I can pour pizza over me but it doesn’t make me become a pizza.
Alright- update again- she just sent me a text and said that she feels that we are distant. I told her about the multiple women that have been trying to pick me up and her refusal. We will see what this does. hammer-time. I am going to get the bride of my youth back.
That's not good enough to simply say "we are distant". If it's true and if she really means it, make her tell you in what way does she feel you are distant and then have her tell you specifically what she would like to see in the relationship so she won't feel distant. Make sure you're doing it. Eliminate that excuse.
THEN, move on to the lack in the marriage bed. Remember, the goal is to KICK BUTT IN LOVE!
I'm getting to really like that phrase-- KICK BUTT IN LOVE!!! It has a nice ring to it.
Anon update-
OK counseling session was good? Wife does not want to talk about details or the issue as it is uncomfortable. claims that I am not portraying how much she participates and that she enjoys just lying there sometimes and is participating while doing so.
Things flip flopped during session. "Why were you sexual during the first 12 years of our relationship?" "I was only doing that to keep you and to please you only because of pressure." 20 minutes later when I called her out on that the conversation flipped "I don't know what I could be like if I had energy and no children- I could be that creative."
So is it she was that way because of pressure or enjoyment? Can she be that way again? Oh what fun to figure this out.
The rules are constantly changing.
"You just can't accept me for me. Some parts about me just can't change." "So, if I am a horrible husband I should just say you need to accept me for me?" "No you can work on being better at it but for some people that is just the way they are."
BTW Gemma- your description of guilt associated with fundamentalism is dead on. After being together over 20 years one of the factors IS that she still feels guilty for sexual sin from 25+years ago!!!
So the question of the year is: Is my wife a sexual tiger like she was in the first 12 years of our relationship and how to get the tiger back?
A few years ago I heard a sermon with a main point of "You cannot have peace without justice."
The same is true of a marriage.
Anon,
What is so uncomfortable for her in talking about her marriage bed?
When she’s just lying there, is she lying there in ecstasy or lying there like a dead fish, as in “let’s get this over with”? Big difference.
When she flip-flopped did the therapist call her on it? Was anything said in response?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"You just can't accept me for me. Some parts about me just can't change." "So, if I am a horrible husband I should just say you need to accept me for me?" "No you can work on being better at it but for some people that is just the way they are."
Good one! So what did the therapist say to that?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>BTW Gemma- your description of guilt associated with fundamentalism is dead on. After being together over 20 years one of the factors IS that she still feels guilty for sexual sin from 25+years ago!!! So the question of the year is: Is my wife a sexual tiger like she was in the first 12 years of our relationship and how to get the tiger back?
Is the therapist a Christian? How does your wife explain the reasons for the death and resurrection of Christ? Does she think He just did all that for the fun of it? Have you seen her exhibit true confession and repentance for other wrong-doings? How does she handle repentance in other areas of her life? Has she ever discussed with your pastor, her guilt from past sexual sin?
True Christianity looks like this:
We sin.
We acknowledge and confess the sin.
We repent.
We receive forgiveness.
We move on. We don’t walk around in sack cloth and ashes.
Did your wife have a high SD before the marriage or could she have been faking that just to ‘hook you in’? People, even Christians unfortunately, use deception all the time to ‘hook’ a bf or gf for marriage. Not trying to give your wife excuses but I do understand how stresses of life can interfere with SD. Is she stressed over the kids, her job, homeschooling, financial issues such as debt or lack of funds for those extra things, problems with extended family members?
Uncomfortable talking about any details of sex. Like I said in a previous post- it is like a huge guessing game that I can never figure out. She will not help me in pleasing her. She thinks talking about what is good and pleasurable is wrong.
------>Did your wife have a high SD before the marriage or could she have been faking that just to ‘hook you in’? People, even Christians unfortunately, use deception all the time to ‘hook’ a bf or gf for marriage. Not trying to give your wife excuses but I do understand how stresses of life can interfere with SD. Is she stressed over the kids, her job, homeschooling, financial issues such as debt or lack of funds for those extra things, problems with extended family members?
Yes first 8 years or so were great. Certainly before marriage were incredibly hot all that I could have dreamed for. This came up in therapy and she did say that she may have been acting that way because she knew that was what I wanted, to keep me and for competition. As we settled into marriage she settled into widdling away what was permissible and how much participation she would give. Creativity and passion has gone from a 10+ to a 1-2.
As for fish or ecstasy? I would say semi conscious fish. We still need help- and lots of it.
Anon
Men, change you and change your wife and marriage.
http://www.marriedandhappy.com
It works but it takes work
Courtney said: "Men, change you and change your wife and marriage. It works but it takes work."
What exactly do you mean by this? I hear from couples all the time. Sure some men do need to change but I find far more women who stubbornly dig in their heels and refuse to even consider that their husbands also have needs. With selfish spouses of both genders it's all about 'me', 'my', 'I'... Time for all of them to grow up and learn to give 150%. Neither spouse should have to beg to get needs met but neither spouse be controlling in the relationship.
A man must lead his wife to a place of mutual happiness. First he must build a foundation of love an trust. Second, he must become a masculine man. Respectable, not needy, a man that is attractive to his wife. Then if she will not have any of it, begin to confront. The last of which is to give an ultimatum. "Start meeting my needs or move out of the way for a woman who will meet them."
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