Wednesday, July 7, 2010

Deleted.

9 comments:

Leftmost said...

I think you are mistaken. This mentality is not unique to Protestant (and in fact quite the opposite in my experience). But in my experience with Orthodoxy, a similar mentality is not only maintain, but directly encouraged by the Church. The fasts, for example, we fast from fish, wine, oil, meat, dairy and...marital relations. We had an Orthodox speaker come to our Church and deliver a talk defending this practice, as he explained it, the Church is trying to prepare us for when our spouse is no longer with us, by encouraging us to...abstain within marriage. And I heard another Orthodox speaker, condemn older men for seeking sexually enhancing drugs because as he explained it they should be rejoicing in their diminished sex drive and thinking about spiritual things.


As for my opinion on the matter, I'd say every couple is different. Numerous examples can be found of how a healthy and frequent sex life amongst married couples can contribute to their ongoing fidelity and love for one another.

Gemma said...

What the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches teach on these topics is not always what the church members practice.

How can I be mistaken in what I see of Christians I know from all 3 different Faiths? I'm only talking about the Christians my husband and I know. What you and others see may be totally different.

I'll say it again. Most Protestants I know are greatly struggling in their marriage bed and most Roman Catholics and Orthodox I know, have healthier views on this topic. What I see in those I know, is what I see.

Anonymous said...

Speaking from personal experience and acquaintance is not a good basis from which to draw sweeping generalizations about other churches and faiths.

Church is not the only contributor to a couple's sexual health. Family of origin and life experience also play a role.

A good friend once said, "Any time you want to know why an organization is the way it is, go straight to the top." Leadership has everything to do with how churches preach and teach truth. There are capable pastors all across Christendom who are faithful and comfortable in teaching healthy sexual attitudes. There are also inept and uncomfortable leaders who wouldn't know missionary position from a runner's stretch.

Churches will almost always be a reflection of their leadership. I'm glad you have found a church that ministers to you and inspires your faith and practice.

ukFred said...

As the person who made the comment to which Gemma has referred, I think that I know a little about my upbringing. I was born in the 1950's and brought up in the presbyterian tradition in the 1950's and 1960's, giving up on church around 1970. In much of the 1960's I attended Bible Class at 10:00, church at 11:30 and sunday school at 2:30 every sunday and I cannot remember a single piece of teaching on marriage, let alone the place of sex in marriage. The impression that I came away with was that sex was something that was brushed under the carpet and certainly not discussed in polite society.

For about 10 years I had nothing to do with any Church and then, I realised that I was missing something, or rather Someone. Despite attending two Congregationalist churches most of the four years between conversion and marriage, again I never heard any teaching on the role of sex in marriage. Indeed, I recently had a discussion with a lay member of the last Congregationalist church we attended who had two theology degrees, he said, who was pontificating that "Song of Songs" should not be in the canon of Scripture because it is "only a love poem and has nothing to do with man's relationship to God"

We moved town and started attending a local Anglican church, and were married in another Anglican church at my wife's home We had no pre-marriage counselling in either church, although we knew that both vicars were acquainted with each other and that they were in contact. Buit we have not heard any teaching on the place of sex within marriage in either the Anglican, Baptist or Methodist churches we have attended since our marriage.

I do not say that the Church, or indeed any local church was to blame. I think that my time as a sinning teenager and during my sinful twenties contributed more than a little. However, nobody in any church I attended made sure we had gotten the message about sex in the marriage bed.

One of the reasons I come here, and to some Christian marriage and sex forums is to ensure that I get the message that sex within marriage is a Godly activity. Let me repeat that (for my own benefit because I know that I need to hear it). Sex within marriage is a Godly activity.

While I would not say that we ought to be hearing teaching on sex within marriage every week, systematic coverage of the Bible for teaching would ensure that it was not missed. Pre-marriage counselling should also incorporate it and should, in my view be compulsory for all couples who wish to be married in church.

Anonymous said...

My husband and I are Protestant Christians and always have been. We experienced almost 20 years of marriage bed problems until awakening in 2006 but church teachings had nothing to do with our problems. Only WE are responsible for the rut we got ourselves into.

Gemma, it is great that you have found a faith practice that works for you and your family but it hurts me (and probably others?) to see you generalize about other faiths.

I respect that you are speaking from your own personal experience but, for me, it comes across offensively.

Gemma said...

Anon,

Did you not read my comment above? Here, I will post it again:

[[[What the Orthodox and Roman Catholic Churches teach on these topics is not always what the church members practice.

How can I be mistaken in what I see of Christians I know from all 3 different Faiths? I'm only talking about the Christians my husband and I know. What you and others see may be totally different.

I'll say it again. Most Protestants I know are greatly struggling in their marriage bed and most Roman Catholics and Orthodox I know, have healthier views on this topic. What I see in those I know, is what I see.]]]

I'm not saying this to insult those who are Protestant. GR and I have many close friends and family who are of that Faith and we respect their Faith. Occasionally we visit their churches for different occasions.

I am only saying that those my dh and I know who are COrth and RC seem to have healthy marriages and of those we know who are Protestant... many of them have marriage bed struggles.

My apologies to you. It seems I have offended you, but please know that I am only referring to people I know, not insulting their Faiths.

I guess I'm not understanding. Why would this offend you? It's not much different than if I were to say, "Most COrth and RC I know read prayers from written material and most Protestants don't." It is what it is. The marriages of our friends and family are what they are. I have way more respect for other Christian Faiths now than I ever did. And I don't make a practice of doing missionary work on those of other Christian Faiths.

Again, my apologies.

Anonymous said...

I always thought of that as more of a medieval Roman Catholic mindset.

Anonymous said...

What makes someone a Protestant? Wasn't the Reformation about appealing directly to the authority of God and Scripture and not to a man made institution? I suppose if this is the case, then I am a Protestant. I attend a house church, so I am not a part of a denomination. House churches are pre-Orthodox (as opposed to pre-orthodox), pre-RC, and pre-Protestant. I know this is somewhat off topic, but the statement struck me and I believe a brief comment was due.

Gemma said...

Anon,

All Christian Faiths are man-made institutions. Who started the Protestant movement? A man. And who runs house churches? Men.

Did I miss something in your comment?